Interesting points. I try as far as possible to avoid the internal GNSO politicking; my approach being to encourage participation and act only on efforts to restrict or inhibit participation. It sounds to me that in this case we have two classic problems: 1. It is not clear what the process is 2. It's not clear why new people would want to get involved If it was possible to remove these two barriers i.e. there was a very clear process for applying and receiving approval or not AND there was some simple documentation that explained to people why forming a new constituency is a good idea and what they could expect from it -- would that then solve some or most of the problems you outline? Or do you feel that the system itself would still not result in what the intention of the whole restructure was - to bring in new groups? Kieren